Thoroughlybred.com Blog

We all have received the latest memorandum, jointly signed by both "the fund" and the NYTB, telling us about the new changes that are going into effect on July 1 to remedy the current shortfall in revenue that "the fund" is now facing. 

Whilst, I found it curious that the "Open Company" awards were the least affected by the reduction, and in my view, these payouts don't really help the Breeders at all, I am even more curious to find out who actually gets these awards, and who will be getting the bulk of these awards in the future.

How much money is being bled from "the fund", and in turn, from the breeders and stallion owners and being paid to a person or entity that doesn't live in the State or perhaps doesn't even breed horses, in NY at all?  Wouldn't this money be better spent if paid to actual breeders and stallion owners that help employ people in the State of New York?

Can anyone shed some light on why these awards have become protected and how much of these awards are going to people that don't contribute to the fund or the State's breeding program?    

Comment by salesthoroughlybredcom

Now that I have finally obtained the information pertaining to the money that has gone from the breeding fund to out of State addresses, as well as funds that have been received by persons and entities that are not on record as NYS Breeders. It is now clear at least to me, that major adjustments have to be made to the rules of this fund, in order for breeders and stallion owners to be properly compensated for the jobs created, as well as keeping the open space and green. Of course the VLT debacle has put a huge financial crimp in the fund, but the real problem is how the money is distributed, not how much is distributed. To build a house, you start with the foundation, and the more solid and evenly burdened the foundation is, the higher the building can built upon it.
With all of the information now have, in hand (as well as some other interesting tidbits about our present leadership and how they have profited without actually contributing), I have recently met with a local politician/representative to begin my journey of trying to propose change.

I will have another meeting next week, and a synopsis I have put together will be hand delivered to Albany with my recommendations to either end the fund all together, or make the changes necessary to make it a useful program for those who need it.

My suggestions, while many, really had three important components, namely, no more owners awards (open company) to horses by non NY State stallions, no breeders awards to horses that are by out of State stallions if the mare wasn't a resident for a year and bred back to a NY Stallion, and stallions awards expanded to out of State maiden special weight wins, allowance wins and stakes wins and places. I have also proposed more incentives like NY Stallion preferred races, etc.

Rather than post everything that was proposed here on this blog where, undoubtedly some unnamed coward will come out of the woodwork to voice his or her name calling and juvenile statements behind the wall of disguise, I will include the excerpts in the next NYBWatch newsletter. I just wanted to keep anyone here that really cares posted as well as encourage you to voice your thoughts.
Jim

Wednesday July 8, 2009 11:00:50 PM EDT

Comment by marestation

kudos to bloggers Joemarx and Fussyone. It seems that the NYTB has read your comments and finally after all this time have decided to take action by issuing a petition which is on their website. I applaud them for finally doing something. I also see that they are going to get more of a grassroots initiative going forward. hmmmmm
Has the NYBWatch been asked to be involved? This is the second time that the NYTB took a positive action after being called out by a blog on this website. Thanks Jim, and all the bloggers. Keep up the good work.

Joanne
Wednesday June 24, 2009 10:10:40 AM EDT

Comment by salesthoroughlybredcom

Recent bloggers Joemarx and Fussyone have brought this blog into the direction is was meant to be when it was started. Its all about money, where it comes from, where it goes to, and how to best utilize it so that the program would grow. Its not a stretch to state that the entire program and racing scene has been at a standstill with very little growth over the last 7 or 8 years. Scandals, broken promises and just general poor leadership have left NY in the unenviable State of being a place with a breeding program that just never lived up to its potential nor its hype.

The question originally posed on this blog, (which was in preparation of a newsletter) is the simple, but obviously elusive, question; where do the open company awards (owners awards) end up?

Is anyone other than me, of the opinion that maybe, just maybe, the politicians that need to get behind the VLT's and the program in general, will have a harder time selling it to their constituency, if any of the money intended to keep space green and land open, ended up in the pockets of a racehorse owner or racing syndicate? Especially one that doesn't breed horses in this State or even live in NY?

Let's just take a moment and think about what sells to the public these days and what doesn't. If you called your local representatives to discuss this program, most wouldn't even know that it existed. Something tells me if pushed hard enough by the wrong people, the program in itself would come under fire as it may be viewed as just another way the rich get richer. If it was discovered that the program was being deemed as an elitist program which is nothing more than welfare for the rich, with most of the money going to people that don't employ New York State residents, you may actually find a politician running on the promise of putting an end to the program all together. That would be a disaster!

The breeders awards are a vital part of the fund in its effort to keep land green and people working in the State. I would argue that Stallion awards may actually have hurt stallion owners as the awards with the VLT's on the horizon, have become the seduction that only forced stallion owners to wave stud fees like everyone else, believing that the money would be made on the back end. The moral of the story is that the optimism and prospect of the VLT's, was the worse thing that has happened to the NY Breeders. It ended up draining the fund.

In summary, we need to get government leaders behind the program. The VLT's may be the panacea for the program as well as the politician's career. However, if it comes to light that most of the money is going to wealthy horse owners,and out of state entities with no job creation in NYS, the "black eye" will become a deal breaker and it will just be passed on to somebody else. I know this to be an issue from personal experience. Sadly, very few are seeing the green through the green!

For more, please sign up to get the NYBWatch Newsletter that will be sent out later this month!

Monday June 22, 2009 5:37:09 PM EDT

Comment by fussyone

Poster Joemarx is spot on with his question. Why aren't we outraged over the embarrassment as well as the missed monies earned by the dropping of the ball when it came to the slots. Is it the fault of the politicos that put politics in front of good sound business, the fault of our spokespeople to make more noise, or the fault of all of us breeders that seem to allow apathy to create the first two reasons.

We need someone with a good political contact to an up and coming politico to get that politico involvevd.Any suggestions? Perhaps we can all sign a petition to let the breeders voices be known about our losses created by the inaction of the legislaters to get the VLT's rolling.

Why don't we start a movement to have someone approach this issue, since no one seems to be trying to resolve it.

Back to the question on this board, I too would like to know if any money is sent out of State now that the question is asked. It occured to me that this may be an impediment to politicions. After all, they would not want to try to make already rich horse racers, that are not breeders living in ny, even richer. I hope its a small amount if any. i will call the fund and our representation to see if i can get an answer.
Monday June 22, 2009 7:08:15 AM EDT

Comment by joemarx

Can we change direction here for a moment, instead of critisizing one another. The bottom line is MONEY. Why aren't we screaming about the foot dragging going on with bringing in the slots. This is a disgrace the way it is being handled. Slots should have been in place for YEARS already. Purses would have increased and MONEY would be flowing - bringing in more fund MONEY which would bring better stallions, mares and NY bred horses. We need to get this important issue resolved ASAP. Does anyone know why our elected officials are allowed to drag their feet on this major issue. We need to scream louder to wake them up to our dire concerns.
Sunday June 21, 2009 8:21:14 PM EDT

Comment by salesthoroughlybredcom

It is worth noting, that you must be a valid registered member of Thoroughlybred to comment on our blogs. We do not require total transparency in the blogs themselves, but due to the nature of our website, all valid users must have their information on file, such as first and last name, address and telephone number. Also a valid IP address that matches the telephone number and zip code must be verified as we do trace IP Adresses.

Blogger Chrisbreeder recently had a blog removed as he or she, once again violated our rules for membership by signing up with a fraudalant name and address.

Part of the blog was very well written, albeit a carbom copy of what seems to be his company line that doesn't answer the questions asked in this blog.
Its this part of the comments made that we find most disturbing and an insult to those who would like to see the program progress through a healthy dialogue. He (or She) wrote:

"Who is on this "watch" list you describe, lets publish names! Transparency is vital to our industry as I assure you've read regarding the Breeders Cup. Based on the anger and prodding this blog has encouraged me to ask around. And everyone I talk too is saying they have NOT "opted in" for anything. I have a strong belief its the standard me, myself and I".

I am at a loss trying to figure out why some bloggers with something useful to say, and call for transparency, would sign up and hide behind a fictitious names, address, etc. Its even more disturbing that someone would be "angered and prodded by this blog". This blog was started in an attempt to find out an answer to a question that was asked by one of our members. Why that question has struck such a nerve, is a whole new question. And to all of you that signed up to NYBWatch, we will not divulge your identities, but perhaps, it would prove a point if you did on your own. We also invited this blogger to sign up to our website properly, and re - post the comments previously made.

Furthermore, it seems that the blogger Chrisbreeder may have a personal problem with me (I don't know who he or she is). I would not want that problem to overshadow the issue, as I harbor no ill feelings for anyone that is trying to make things better, even if I disagree with their suggestions or motives. I still have not offered any opinion or comments, as I am seeking answers to a question. Despite all diversion tactics by chris, chrisbreeder and breeder1 (I bet they know each other!), the question still remains unanswered. Lets not make this about me, or anyone else for that matter. Lets make it about a fact finding mission to try to better a very dis-functional, and rage filled program.


Saturday June 20, 2009 4:54:04 PM EDT

Comment by chris

I too make mistakes: I misprinted. 2001 the percent of NY-Sired NY-breds is exactly the same as 2008 at 60% of the foals...Non Sired-NY was 40% of course.
Saturday June 20, 2009 8:49:08 AM EDT

Comment by salesthoroughlybredcom

In reading most of the comments made on this blog from my blackberry yesterday, I couldn't help but think how nice it would be if in fact, a good healthy debate could take place, between what has obviously become the have's and the have not's of the NYS Breeding scene. With that said, I must confess that the whole point of this blog thread was to get some information requested by some of the members of NYBWatch relative to the amount of money that is paid out of State, from "the fund" in regards to Open Company awards or as some of you call the "Owner Awards".

While I haven't seen any answers to this question, I did get to see a lot of what I would consider "diversionary facts"
being given from the side that seems to believe that the Open Awards are a good thing for this industry.

While I have my own opinions, I have not commented on this blog. I am neither "Karusha", nor am I "Marestation", but I do admit to knowing both well enough to know, that they are both very intelligent people that have bred horses here a long time. To dismiss either of their ideas or comments by insinuating they are in disguise, working for the website, or me for that matter, is pretty condescending, and really doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever.

I, quite unfortunately, have bigger, and more important issues to tend to at the moment, thus I have not really been more than the thread starter and administrator of this blog. I do hope that things get better, and I certainly tried to offer some ideas in the past, but for the moment at least, I plan to not have any "dog in this fight", at least until things get better for us here at home.

The fact that NYBWatch, has so many members, in just a short period of time, should tell us all that perhaps people here are not as satisfied with the program as some would suggest.

Jim V

Saturday June 20, 2009 6:59:31 AM EDT

Comment by chris

I too make mistakes: I misprinted. 2001 the percent of NY-Sired NY-breds is exactly the same as 2008 at 60% of the foals...Non Sired-NY was 40% of course.
Friday June 19, 2009 11:46:46 PM EDT

Comment by chris

I can only take this nonsense for so long, so I had to chime in. "marestation" or should we say Jim, you really don't know to much about NY's awards, in addition to breeding philosophy based on your comments and this blog! Below you just eluded to "breeder1" that "Owners Awards" are different than "Open company awards". Well, if you don't know that they are one in the same you probably should take a few steps back! Wow...talk about discrediting yourself and this blog. They are paid to "owners of the NY-bred" based on them winning in "open company" races above $30k. People use the terms collectively.

I mean really, should you be writing anything on here? I was pointed to this blog because it was providing a few of your so called fellow breeders laughs today. As I am told its an instant thoroughlybred "auto delete" spam email, now I truly understand why. Ignorance on the key logistics to breeding. Very, very sad.

I read below the point of the "Open Company Owner Award" which I agree with, to create marketvalue for NY-breds. Given incentive for someone to own and purchase a NY-bred from auction and further promote the program. If the NY-bred was invaluable to own, there would be no breeding business in this state. Its a commercial breeders bread and butter. And what in the world are you talking about "other peoples" hands? The money goes to those who buy/own NY-breds...what don't you get? Their money isnt good enough, for the NY trainer, jockey, blacksmith, groom, barn foreman, farm owner, farm manager, vet and breeder along with the other 30 jobs that are attached to that NY-bred being raised, broke, stabled and raced in NY? And we all know the vast majority of NY-bred owners are NYers themselves. Come on, you make no sense!

And the trends, did you actually look at the stats? Or should I say, interpret them? The stats are very much comparable to past years.
1. Based on the fact that the overall foal crop is downward trending (FYI its nationally doing this, check out Bloodhorse)
2. The Sires standing in NY has dropped over the years.
And as the person mentioned earlier, since 2005 the percent of Non-NY-sired NY-breds has only gone up 3%. Actually, since 2001 the percent of Non-NY-Sired NY-breds is exactly the same at 60% of the foals! So again, come on here what are you talking about?

I think throwing in information about the PA program is well warranted too! That was news to me, which now someone else just confirmed as well. Given NY takes all this public bashing about PA, why should we not point on major differences or flaws in their system? You tend to do it on here about the NY program every time a stupid blog topic is put forth based on what I am told!

The big thing here, breeders are all different. Some of us are commercial, some are home/farm breeders, and some are a little in between. Everyone is going to see things from a different perspective. The point hopefully being to understand that the program supports pretty much all of us together in different ways... And seriously, "carpetbaggers" that sounds ridiculous. Another case of the disgruntled angry and unfortunate breeder strikes again.

Thanks for completely discrediting this site and proving what some really don't know and unfortunately don't get!
Friday June 19, 2009 11:42:06 PM EDT

Comment by marestation

breeder1, with all of your "fact based comments" and condescending lesson giving, you never offered anything that had anything to do with the blog. your diversion tactic tells me that you must be one of them carpetbaggers that member Karusha, so aptly defined. you were the one to bring up the pa program, and the only one to do so here. your statement that the thread of this blog is "owners awards" might explain why you are not on the same page as most of us. the thread is based on the topic of "Open company awards". I believe the question being asked, that now has me curious, is how much of this fund, is not there, because its in somebody elses hands that doesn't contribute to the employment of workers in NY State.
Since you guided us all to the stattistics page, I am even more disheartened about the trend downward of mares as well as registered ny bred foals by non registered NY stallions. The decline in both screams that a chage must be made. the decline of the last five years, if repeated, will make karusha's prediction come true. the program will be memory...
Friday June 19, 2009 10:03:30 PM EDT

Comment by breeder1

“easygoer” I just caught your post. If I were you, I would attempt to find out as much as possible. Education is priceless, especially when you make this industry your business. I recommend calling legitimate sources or people who have been doing this a very long time who’ve been successfull…..

I breed my mares exactly how I wrote in the last post I responded. The right ones stay and the right ones go out. Its a pedigree and value play. As we all should do. Would I devalue a blacktype mare to a stallion which has thrown no quality, absolutely not! Would I take a blacktype mare to a NY stallion who fit her well, absolutely. Would I breed a unproven mare either way, yes. Do I breed mares that routinely throw foals that don't make it, absolutely not. Why? I can't afford to and its not improving my broodmare band nor my operation, along with the NY gene pool. FYI, bringing in out of state stallion genes is improving our NY progeny you should now. Again, it's all about the mare and whats right for her. So, in state and out of state based on her.

A few points that you have which are blatantly misconstrued. I just called around and found out NONE of the Awards were ever paid for 5th place. And 4th place was taken away back in 2008. So this is by no means a new thing. Why were they removed, AS MENTIONED all over the place…..the Fund revenue is DOWN. There is less money. It comes from wagering, as mentioned again. The changes that were made to the “breeder’s awards category” have nothing to do or impact your “stallion awards”.

You make it sound like someone took the money from you! The fact of the matter is the money never existed. It’s simply not there. The awards change because wagering money is down, wagering money is the only fuel for the Fund, and how else could they operate at the Fund by not changing as times change? Pay you a check that would bounce? This industry is not a nickel and dime game unfortunately, and as mentioned it’s not one which depending on incentive checks from the Fund to pay our business. Won’t work….more importantly wasn’t meant too.

As for you "marestation", I'm not even sure how to respond. The title of this thread is owner awards, which surely has been proven to be ridiculous of a thought to remove, and we know has no impact what so ever on your Stallion Awards.

I'm confident we all know standing a stallion based on what "Stallion awards" you can earn, is a losing proposition. Ask anyone, even those successful with their stud. ALSO, if your really after Stallion awards as a concern....THEY HAVE NOT CHANGED Other than 4th place from last year. Which makes this story even more comical. Your getting the same money you always have, expect for 4th. Come on...if your point is that your stallion can not attract enough mares and you are concerned because the commercial market has taken mares to KY for stud fees. So be it. But then you have to ask yourself, do I have the right stud for NY? Because the right studs here are booking mares....

I talk to a lot of breeders, and it seems everyone does in fact understand. It's not based on size, small or large. Its based on their practice. Again, how can you be dependent on checks from the Fund. Look at their list of award recipients, no one can operate based on those monthly awards (public info on nybreds.com) too. Breed the best you can, be selective and DO NOT rely on incentives to pay your bills. Pretty simple. Its comical that we haven't progressed! Look at the damn numbers for NY-bred runners in 2008! Ridiculous, simply ridiculous. Why do you think NYRA has 800 restricted races now? Because we've been successful and grown. You point is absurd. The PA program is immature compared to our model it will go through its growing pains as we have. After all you should know they modeled everything they have off of us, fact. If your in fact a NY breeder perhaps you should start acting like one...

Officially for good, I'm done for good here.
Friday June 19, 2009 5:17:49 PM EDT

Comment by marestation

no the blog started off asking questions that you decided to answer. there was no information posted, until u decided to post information from the nybreds website. karusha as well as the other posted comments are opinions, so you are trying to talk up misconceptions as if they exist. i alrready told you that I invested in a stallion and purchased shares. everyyear over the last 5 he gets less mares and as the purses go up, we get less money. thats a fact. the majoority of small breeders are not happy, and financially are suffering. thats a fact also. your #s are selective, but the bottom line is that most feel that this program has leeft small breeders and breeding farms behind and have just made the richh richer. thats also a fact. we are looking for the leadership to make things better,they have not, and thats a fact. you didn't answer any questions about your breeding program, and thats a fact. regarding your opening comments about how this blog is making matters worse and is inciting trouble, i say that you protesth too much. this blog is asking started out asking if open company awards are going to non breeders out of state. you took it off that course. why....
i am getting more and more to think that Karusha is right. this program is about to become an aftrethought and the carpetbaggers will just move on, leaving the rest of us behind. maybe only farms that employ people and pay them should be the recipient of the awards. enough of the money going to those who know the loopholes...
what have you done to make the program better anyway? we should look to those who have fresh ideas, your old ideas and motives, are great, just not for a breeding program. how sad that a new york breeder, continually has to bring up the problems in PA.. it was only a few years ago that PA didn't have a program worth mentioning. now, our lack of progrees has made them the high water mark. that says all we need to hear....
Friday June 19, 2009 4:44:19 PM EDT

Comment by breeder1

I’m trying to understand what your point is here? Your comments are all over the place. The blog started off with misconstrued information about the Awards Program, how it works and why categories are structured the way they are. The figures and breeding law answer all of those for everyone, as they are published facts and common knowledge. So the misconstrued information was corrected.

It sounds like you’re a stallion owner based on your comments. As you are concerned with NY-sired, NY-breds and concerned with money going to out of state stud fees. The mare population for 09 has not been calculated yet as we know, so we really cannot talk about this year. Based on economic times, everyone and their brother know many breeders not only in NY but across the country have been put back. So you can certainly expect a decline for 2010 foals. I’ve seen it with my farm.

Rather than reiterate numbers, why not look at the facts provided yet again for public consumption:

http://www.nybreds.com/frames/FS_graphs.html

As you can see the number of Non-NY –sired NY-breds has been consistent, rising only 3% in the last 4yrs. If anything, this should be great news for those mares that DO stay in-state to a NY stallion. The pool of foals will be smaller for the races such as the $1.5M Stallion Series. That’s how it’s viewed, racing opportunity. That’s what PA and other states don’t have. (Don’t forget about PA losing their revenue from wagering! Huge blow to them!)
My point being this, breeding should be based on your broodmare band. If your mares are not producing type to be competitive, year over year, that’s a problem. The band needs to be replaced and potentially not bred anymore. Bad + Bad, 99% of the time = Bad. Everyone breeds a good horse and everyone breeds a bad horse, fact. This industry comes down to your stock and what you have. A mare with specific pedigree and type is going to go out-of-state to be bred, and should be matched with the right Stallion. Once established her value needs to be retained. A mare that matches up with the Stallions in NY, will stay in NY and fit accordingly. That’s what makes NY great. That’s standard breeding philosophy.

You mention “so where is the money going if there is more money and less true NY-breds?” What money? And how can it be more, it’s declined. The Fund is what it is….As I’ve mentioned and most likely many others, EVERY DOLLAR of Fund money goes to those who participate in the NY program. Breeder Awards to those who breed, Stallion Awards to go those who own a Stallion. Owner Awards go to those who buy and race a NY-bred. There is no were else by LAW it go? A NY-bred is a NY-bred, forget about what Stallion they go too. The breeder still gets the awards no matter where they go, they are breeding and producing a NY-bred foal that drops and is raised in NY. They are contributing to the population of those in the program, NY farms, racing, ext. If you’re concerned with Stallion fees going out of State, well no one can control that. I would say set your Stallion up to be successful. That’s the only way they make it. Give him a chance, his book needs to be established before he even stands. (ie. What all the major outfits do)

My last point, I cannot afford to rely on Fund Awards to stay in business!!! Who can??? The top award recipient spends millions getting a large commercial operation and the smallest breeder spends what they can to breed the best horse possible. The smaller breeder simply doesn’t earn awards at a rate of which they can live/survive off of Fund Awards. Just as the largest commercial breeder because of their amount invested. However, if they breed the right horse they are receiving the Fund Awards and it’s truly an added perk. Common sense, I hope.

The end of my lesson, I truly hope this helps. I know that those I deal with certainly get it. Over and out with nothing left to say.
Friday June 19, 2009 4:13:57 PM EDT

Comment by marestation

i am not karusha, but i agree with his comments. i think that your facts and figures are true and come directly from the statistics on nybreds.com however, the mare population is steadily declining, as well as the mares bred to ny stallions. the decline is going on longer than the present crisis. so where is the money going if their is more money and less true ny breds? i bet you don't own a farm or stand a stallion, but earn awards despite the rest of the industry struggles to pay their bills. the state of the industry is not good and getting worse. it must be the "carpetbaggers that are getting the longer end of the stick.
Friday June 19, 2009 2:43:00 PM EDT

Comment by breeder1

Come on now. It’s the internet, just as you haven’t said who you are “marestation” or “Karusha for that matter, no one wants their name published. You could be the same person for all anyone knows… I’m a breeder and that’s about it, who the hell would want to work at the Fund. Polls? That’s comical in itself. How many people responded to these polls, how can we know? What are the demographics? Could have been one person. Unless the names and physical evidence is provided “from the source” graphically showing those numbers. Some other sites do that. Otherwise the poll is worthless.

Given no one’s breeding operation is the same it’s absurd for you to state, “You are both doing the same thing”. You also stated, “Not sure what’s right or wrong?” Well it’s not about what’s right or wrong, it’s about factual information which is readily available for those who really are concerned with NY breeding. If someone is involved in the program, you would “hope” they know the rules how the Fund works and why things are the way they are! Otherwise, what are they doing breeding? Those old slogans they use “get with the program.” If you’re going to complain about it, you probably should know about it first.

Friday June 19, 2009 2:29:05 PM EDT

Comment by easygoer

ok breeder1, you may very well know more than any of the others. but isn't that a problem in itself? do you breed your mares to ny stallions exclusively? or are you one of those "carpetbaggers" that Karusha refers to?
what about the few of us that invested in a ny stallion and now are getting no 4th or fifth place awards, even though we bought into the stallion expecting those awards. i resent the fact that you say i and others have to get with the program. they keep changing the rules, don't they. We are not getting about $450.00 so far due to the reduction. I think that is a shame.
Friday June 19, 2009 2:22:25 PM EDT

Comment by breeder1

Come on now. It’s the internet, just as you haven’t said who you are “marestation” or “Karusha for that matter, no one wants their name published. You could be the same person for all anyone knows… I’m a breeder and that’s about it, who the hell would want to work at the Fund. Polls? That’s comical in itself. How many people responded to these polls, how can we know? What are the demographics? Could have been one person. Unless the names and physical evidence is provided “from the source” graphically showing those numbers. Some other sites do that. Otherwise the poll is worthless.

Given no one’s breeding operation is the same it’s absurd for you to state, “You are both doing the same thing”. You also stated, “Not sure what’s right or wrong?” Well it’s not about what’s right or wrong, it’s about factual information which is readily available for those who really are concerned with NY breeding. If someone is involved in the program, you would “hope” they know the rules how the Fund works and why things are the way they are! Otherwise, what are they doing breeding? Those old slogans they use “get with the program.” If you’re going to complain about it, you probably should know about it first.

Friday June 19, 2009 2:13:45 PM EDT

Comment by marestation

it seems that the blogger "Karusha" completely disagrees with you. if you are both doing the same thing, why is there such a difference of opinion? why are these polls saying something else. do you breed horses or work for the breeding fund. if you are with the fund, why not identify yourself to those who are not sure what is right and what is wrong?
Friday June 19, 2009 12:54:17 PM EDT

Comment by breeder1

All awards only pay up until 3rd place. 5th place was removed from the program years ago, 4th place was removed last year. For ALL awards categories (breeder, stallion, owner). Equal across the board. As all who breed in NY were told. Actually last I checked, most of the other State programs only pay 1st place finishers. You mentioned "inequitable reduction", not sure what you mean? Because the cuts are based on what revenue the Fund has, and paid according to law. Simple, they pay out what they have gotten in through NY wagers (on track and OTB). The awards category's as I mentioned operate according to State law and have % limits for each. So the Open Owners Awards category pool of money has no relation to what is being paid to the Breeders Awards category. End of story.

Of course money goes out of state. If your in this industry you know, people breed, sell, race in NY from all over the country. Why? Because its the best damn racing, period. 1000 restricted races, highest purse structures, best tracks. Unfortunately people tend to forget those points. And no other program can say that, thats a fact. Why would you NOT want someone to buy your NY-bred who lives outside of NY? Why would you NOT want someone to board their mare at a NY farm and breed in this State, who perhaps lives outside of NY? There are hundreds of people that do both of course. The are part of what creates our NY-bred market. Having as many people interested in NY breeding is what drives NY farms, stallion owners, the auction platform and NYRA to write NY-bred races!

You are right about one thing, there is NO information in this blog!!!! I am a NY breeder and its my business to support it.
Friday June 19, 2009 12:28:32 PM EDT

Comment by marestation

Can someone tell me if it is true that before the change, open company awards were paid up to fourth place and now were cut to up to third place? Breeders awards were cut from 4th and 5th place finishers, and now only pay to third place. If this information is true, than maybe breeder1 can inform us the reason for the unequitable reduction if award earners. i don't see any information in this blog, so what is the mis-information that breeder1 is referring to? i to would be curious to know if any money was paid out of state. that information is what i believed was aked for.
Friday June 19, 2009 11:56:17 AM EDT

Comment by breeder1

As I receive this sites solicitation almost every day, I thought I'd finally correct what yet again is misinformed information from it. I'm truly disgusted with the infighting and bashing that this site promotes, definitely one of the issues NY has and limits us from going further. A problem with the internet and free formed media, anyone can write anything with no justification for what's published, which leads to incorrect content being published from misinformed subjects. It’s my suggestion that NY breeders get educated on the program in which they conduct business and utilize the resources they have to do so. ( I pulled this directly from the NY Breeding Fund)

As hopefully you know, (at least all that I do business do), the Breeding Funds pool of money is broken out into a few categories, purse enrichment and equine research. The Fund money CAN NOT be shared across each category (breeder, stallion, owner). Each is its own set of funds. Why, because of State law to promote all parts of the business.

Here is the Breeding LAW breakdown:

• Breeders Awards: not to exceed 50% of total Fund Revenue;
• Stallion Awards: not to exceed 20% of total Fund Revenue;
• Owners Awards not to exceed 40% of total Fund Revenue;
• Purse Enrichment: not to exceed 44% of total Fund Revenue;
• Equine Research: established at 2% of total Fund Revenue;

The key here is the word and concept of "NOT TO EXCEED". As we all should know, the Fund pays out WHAT WE EARN based on WHAT MONEY IS AVAILABLE to the Fund from wagering. These laws permit them from going over the "caps" for each category AND from sharing money between each category. This is yet again other public information readily available to you here: http://www.nybreds.com/frames/FS_incentives.html

In 2008: Fund paid $6,817,331 in breeder awards, $2,133,913 in stallion owner awards and $1,388,649 in open owner’s awards.

Therefore, what can be very easily seen "Open Company Owner Awards" are not earning the full 40% of Fund revenue. What's also important to note, even if Open Company Owners Awards did the Fund CAN NOT take the money and give it to "Breeder Awards", because of law.

The changes the Fund Board made were a result of declining revenue and the inability to pay FULL "Breeder Awards". What’s probably the most important piece to note; even if these caps were changed the Fund wouldn't have enough money to pay out full Breeder Awards. Simply because we are earning more than what's available. Wagering is down; hopefully you've seen this all over the news. So they had to reduce % of Breeder Awards to get to a number were they could be paid in full by year’s end.

NOW, cutting Open Company Owner Awards? You must understand their purpose. They drive the commercial market for us NY breeders. Having the incentive to own a NY-bred who can not only earn purse money but also receive Owners Awards is a HUGE advantage for this State. We all know that, or should anyway! The marketplace for NY-breds is a huge place because of this Fund category. Just go to an auction, that's what buyers talk about when it comes to NY-breds. So by all means, the Open Company Owner Awards are highly important and were created for a reason way back when, to promote the OWNERSHIP and MARKETPLACE for a NY-bred. Help us breeders sell the horses we breed, or if we race them earn further money for breeding a quality horse. FYI, check out other State programs, they all followed suite! Crazy to think about removing what makes our State marketable to those buying our product.

Last point, what hasn't been written in the news, but is groundbreaking the State of Pennsylvania has taken away "pari-mutual" money from its Breeding Fund!!!! Now that's news. Last year I believe the PA Fund got $7M from pari-mutual money, so the grandly promoted place in 2009 will now be a $14M Fund, down from $23M. FYI, the NY Fund was $14M last year...
Friday June 19, 2009 10:16:20 AM EDT

Comment by karusha

This conversation is getting disheartening. Until we understand that supporting the 'out of state' stallions and the money manipulators of the claiming game, our fund will soon dissipate and 'our' organization will be a footnote on a future page of the history of New York racing.
There is a 'pecking order' of real entitlements from our fund and yet, we have seemed to drift away from it. I don't profess to have all (or most of) the answers, but rewarding the 'carpetbaggers' and adventurers in NY racing with OUR money seems a tad frivolous...Just my opinion.
And yes, I own a farm, have mares, breed to NY stallions (mostly) and employee many people that care for the horses and their surroundings. Most of the aforementioned 'drainees' on the fund do not!

Thursday June 18, 2009 12:29:17 PM EDT

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