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Comment by paulsnell

I breed and race in PA. I find it highly entertaining that people on here are complaining about the restricted race program in NY. There is a reason why other states have not followed suite in carding so many restricted races. Too many restricted races does nothing more than offer an opportunity or should I say an "outlet" for people to breed bad horses. When races are carded at restricted maiden claiming at $15k for example and so forth. Those type of races have downgraded the quality of horse that is being produced. This is why other states, such as PA have opted into open races like every other state and give bonuses to those who win these open races. It's not only placing an emphasis on breeding for better sake, its allowing races to be carded without drawing lines in the sand. Additionally, it helps the value of stallions from being "closed" to a mare population. Monmouth is going to hurt everyone this summer, but its clear as day this is a one and done show. I don't blame tracks for trying to keep horses on the grounds to fill their cards. Don't they have too? You can't make everyone happy all the time. After all, based on what I've seen, the open races in NY just got bumped to $50k. That's a lot of money to win in short horse fields. I might ship in myself! After all, any horse can run in those races too, maybe they should start too. With the foal crop diminishing nationally, its going to be harder and harder for any track to card a full day of races. Realistically, how could anyone card 9 restricted races a day? They physically can't. The moral of the story, too many restricted races does nothing for this game. I might mention as handle takes year over year declines by 10% those purse are getting smaller and smaller.

Paul Snell, PA Owner and Breeder
Monday May 3, 2010 10:05:45 AM EDT

Comment by paulsnell

I breed and race in PA. I find it highly entertaining that people on here are complaining about the restricted race program in NY. There is a reason why other states have not followed suite in carding so many restricted races. Too many restricted races does nothing more than offer an opportunity or should I say an "outlet" for people to breed bad horses. When races are carded at restricted maiden claiming at $15k for example and so forth. Those type of races have downgraded the quality of horse that is being produced. This is why other states, such as PA have opted into open races like every other state and give bonuses to those who win these open races. It's not only placing an emphasis on breeding for better sake, its allowing races to be carded without drawing lines in the sand. Additionally, it helps the value of stallions from being "closed" to a mare population. Monmouth is going to hurt everyone this summer, but its clear as day this is a one and done show. I don't blame tracks for trying to keep horses on the grounds to fill their cards. Don't they have too? You can't make everyone happy all the time. After all, based on what I've seen, the open races in NY just got bumped to $50k. That's a lot of money to win in short horse fields. I might ship in myself! After all, any horse can run in those races too, maybe they should start too. With the foal crop diminishing nationally, its going to be harder and harder for any track to card a full day of races. Realistically, how could anyone card 9 restricted races a day? They physically can't. The moral of the story, too many restricted races does nothing for this game. I might mention as handle takes year over year declines by 10% those purse are getting smaller and smaller.

Paul Snell, PA Owner and Breeder
Monday May 3, 2010 9:56:40 AM EDT

Comment by joemarx

The move to lower NYB purses will hurt all NY racing in the long run. There will be less NYB horses being bred and less to fill races. Stallion owners will not send good stallions to NY, and the quality of NYB horses will diminish. This will hurt the NY tracks in the long run. NYB races are needed to fill race cards.
NYB Maiden special weight races were 41k and now 36k. More than 10% lower, and costs have risen. Lowering the purses is moving backwards. NYB horses have come a long way due to the incentives. Removing the incentives may need to be re-thought
Sunday May 2, 2010 7:58:49 PM EDT

Comment by southbelle

Last year I had posted these comments on a similar thread. nothing has changed other than the venomous slander that i hear spews out of the mouths of certain board of directors and members regarding any person that is looking to make a change. I started this conversation almost 4 years ago, prior to the debacle in Albany and the financial crisis, both of which have become a conveinent crrutch of sorts, that leadership is leaning on to excuse thier ineptitude. From the NYTB, NYBSC, NYRA and now NYCOTB, the breeders fund has been nothing more than "way in" at the expense of the horse breeders of the State. Here is a cut and pasted, unedited comment made over a year ago.

Quote

For the sake of fairness and transparency, I am following up on my previous comments made on this blog, to inform readers that the Executive Director of the NYTB, did in fact finally return my call (after my comments were posted), to discuss what I wrote as well as to talk about the poll and some of the other comments posted on www.thoroughlybred.com

Mr Cannizzo, Executive Director - NYTB, expressed his concerns relative to the purpose of my comments as he thought that they may have been designed to give him a "black eye" in an open forum. I assured Mr. Cannizzo, that this was not the case and this is not about him, and there is no personal animus from my perspective towards the NYTB, its board members or the organization. Frankly, I have been unhappy with the efforts of the NYTB for several years and have openly questioned their motives, questionable leadership, and organizational goals long before Mr. Cannizzo arrived at the helm.

Whilst, I found Mr. Cannizzo genuinely interested in what I had to say, he had made it clear to me, that there is very little the NYTB can do when it comes to the rules, regulations and decisions made by the people running the fund itself.

I informed Mr. Cannizzo of the overall discontent of a great many of the breeders in the State as evidenced in a Thoroughlybred Com study done several years ago entitled "What's wrong with NY Breds" and subsequent polls and blog. Mr. Cannizzo was cordial and once we had gotten past the personal animus issue, we talked openly and productively for quite awhile. I think he is sincere in his quest to try and better his organization by making it more transparent and open to ideas.

Now we hear, much to the delight of the majority of breeders and stallion owners that due to the ground swell of breeders protesting the proposed changes, the proposal will be scrapped and the elimination of breeders and stallion awards in claiming races is now off the table! The outstanding work done by many non NYTB members by getting involved and e mailing and telephoning key decision makers of the fund, is what saved us all from a bad decision made by the fund out of complete desperation. This change would have destroyed the program for the majority of the breeders who rely on the fund, and ironically, give back to the program. Eliminating breeders and stallion awards in claiming races, while paying money called "open company awards" to an owner who may not even reside or breed in the State for winning the same race, is just plain dumb. Especially if the purpose of the fund is to develop a breeding program to keep farms open for business with residents working on those farms in the State of New York

If the fund is so strapped for cash then it has mishandled the funds by not keeping their eye on the ball. If things are truly that bad where people are scrambling to make the" ends justify the means" then I propose the complete elimination of all non NY sired horses from being eligible to take any money out of the fund, period! Lets also mandate that to be eligible for awards from the program, the mare must be in the State for the entire gestation period. This would alleviate alot of the present problems while developing a breeders program for breeders to drink from the well before a non breeding race horse owner.

Drastic? Perhaps, but this will leave plenty of money in the fund to compensate breeders for breeding horses, and maybe even have a little left over to pay Stallion owners awards for out of State Stakes wins. That would actually be a better advertising campaign then using Funny Cide as the poster child for the program. All that ad campaign does is advertise the loopholes in the system while stating the obvious superiority of Kentucky stallions. Maybe it would be better to entice some out of State stallion owners to bring their stallions to NY rather than sending our mares there.

Any other monies left over should go to the TRF or any other horse rescue fund so that they can help horses that are being left behind. Horses are being abandoned due to the devaluation of NY breds because of the instability here. The failed VLT's program, the failed Sales Company, and the distrust in the breeding program is making small breeders uncomfortable to say the least. Making matters worse is the sentiment that the people representing the program has become an "old boy network" of elitists, with big ,self serving objectives.

Last year I heard that some of the board members were trying to eliminate stallion awards to stallion owners if the stallion was deceased. Now, that is equally as dumb, but the talk diminished as 2 NY stallions had a horrific accident that year. Maybe it was a just coincidence, but this caused many to question why such an idea would even be discussed. I also heard that it has been stated that eliminating claiming races from the awards program would be good for the program as people would stop running sore horses and sore horses don't deserve awards. Really? That's not only an elitist comment, its equally arrogant. The track vet and the gamblers get to decide that, not a guy with a stable full of high priced NY Breds by mainly out of State stallions. Besides, if those horses don't run to earn their keep, who is going to feed them?

Thus, before we send in the marching band, lets all take a pause and realize that nothing has really gotten better in this breeding program. Nobody saved the building from burning simply by not allowing another bucket of gasoline to be poured onto the flame.

I for one, still would like to see how much money is sent out of State from the fund and how much money is being paid to non breeders. The NYTB should understand this concept as there charter as well as their membership calls for members to meet the following criteria:
"To be eligible for membership in the NYTB, a person shall be currently engaged in the thoroughbred industry as a breeder or stallion owner in the State of New York, lessees and lessors of mares and stallions domiciled in New York, or own property in the State of New York which is utilized for breeding thoroughbreds specifically for the pari-mutuel racing industry and/or others who have demonstrated an interest in furthering the purposes of the NYTB." (From The NYTB Web site).

I hope that in some small way, this issue becomes the hot button that finally gets people motivated to demand the changes necessary to have the fund provide what it was intended to provide for, the development of a State breeding program.


Jim Vena
April 23, 2009 at 12:16:24

unquote
Sunday May 2, 2010 3:05:50 PM EDT

Comment by badge

If anyone is interested, take a look at a blog thread started here over 1 year ago. I guess what we all feared was happening, happened.

Here is the blog thread: http://www.thoroughlybred.com/blog.cgi?view_post=11

If you can't open it up then simply cut and paste it into your browser.



Sunday May 2, 2010 2:51:18 PM EDT

Comment by marestation

It seems that leadership in our industry lacks some focus. NY breeders get smacked in the face by NYRA by giving purse money to others who invest little in the state and the NY program. And very little said by anyone. Why?
Maybe there should be a shake-up at the NYTB board.
Maybe getting some new voices with more thought given to who and WHAT we are supposed to be about.
Maybe the NYTB board, at least, should hear from members who are concerned about the direction NYTB is taking on a more regular basis and not confine itself to the clandestine gathering it has become.

How long can we sustain the punishment and the indifference. The silence is maddening!
Oh well, there's always Pennsylvania and now Massachusetts.


Sunday May 2, 2010 12:59:21 PM EDT

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